tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post8402441797020224585..comments2024-01-18T14:59:03.628+00:00Comments on The Dàchéng Diaries: Toys and GamesDàchénghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-65917956784971861992014-08-21T11:37:50.964+01:002014-08-21T11:37:50.964+01:00I should also note that I followed this up later w...I should also note that I followed this up later with <a href="http://casualnoob.blogspot.com/2013/06/free2play-need-not-be-pay2win.html" rel="nofollow">Free2Play need not be Pay2Win"</a>Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-67327308169932671032013-05-19T12:19:43.298+01:002013-05-19T12:19:43.298+01:00By the way, Goeben, you answered you own question ...By the way, Goeben, you answered you own question (which may have been a rhetorical question) in the last sentence you wrote in paragraph 2.Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-62314066601592010732013-05-19T12:07:11.804+01:002013-05-19T12:07:11.804+01:00Indeed. "Arena" and "Realm First XX...Indeed. "Arena" and "Realm First XXX" are games invented by Blizzard.Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-25189028908599020482013-05-19T12:04:41.912+01:002013-05-19T12:04:41.912+01:00Blogs have long tails. Readers of this diary entry...Blogs have long tails. Readers of this diary entry might be interested to know that Tobold replied to this in an article entitled <a href="http://tobolds.blogspot.ie/2013/05/mmorpgs-and-win-conditions.html" rel="nofollow">MMORPGs and win conditions</a>Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-35153910101962424942013-05-19T11:54:06.306+01:002013-05-19T11:54:06.306+01:00You are perfectly correct, Goeben. Toys have no in...You are perfectly correct, Goeben. Toys have no internal win conditions, which was really a point I was making in this post. But games do. As you say, I don't have to Pay2Win if I don't want to. I'm quite happy to take my money elsewhere.<br />Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-84508989069966199792013-05-18T02:59:45.036+01:002013-05-18T02:59:45.036+01:00Tobold is however partly wrong in this case.
Quot...Tobold is however partly wrong in this case.<br /><br />Quotes from his blog:<br /><i>"Many of the people bragging how great they are at this "game" only managed to beat those who didn't even know there was a competition"<br /><br />"And even different groups that all consider the game competitive all play under different rule sets"<br /><br />"Nobody was ever declared the winner of World of Warcraft except by himself"</i><br />How would your define WoW arena? I consider arena an official competition that can be played within the toy/game that is worldofwarcraft.<br /><br />There are fixed rules. Your rating is obvious when you step in arena, even your ranking is displayed in game. It is fairly obvious to players that they are in a ranked competition with other players. <br /><br />There are fixed rules. You gain ranking by killing your enemy teams. Number one of a group will win an unique title. Top 0.5% will get another title. <br />No one has 'won' football. Teams/people have won world championships. People/teams have been declared winners of Arena seasons<br /><br />There are even spectators. There are some players who have earned over 100.000 in income from playing in the last year, although you could argue that this is because they monetize their playing time. <br />They generally are professional WoW players who make a good income because of their performance within the game.<br /><br />How is arena not competitive? It might be a mini game (within a game or a game through a toy), it however is a competitive aspect of WoW that can be won.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-46710437871156613372013-05-17T20:19:53.148+01:002013-05-17T20:19:53.148+01:00Let me get this straight... A subset of those who...Let me get this straight... A subset of those who play with a toy create a meta game (e.g. WoWProgress), which entitles them to demand that the maker of the toy not sell an item that will mess up their meta game? <br /><br />I agree with Tobold -- MMO "toys" have no internal win conditions; they are designed to feed you repetitive content to keep you as a paying customer. Participating in a competitive meta game can indeed be compelling way to enjoy that content, but there are many players who don't play your meta game. You are certainly entitled to petition the developer not to undermine your meta game, but clearly it's a market driven decision from the developer's perspective, whether they can make more money by selling "magic swords" than they lose from disappointing meta gamers.<br /><br />If you don't want to "Pay2Win," don't! It's up to you to figure out how to prevent other people from using the "magic sword" to cheat at your meta game. Like Gevlon's blue raiding guild, you can say no to the "magic sword." Hulfnarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03238752023539912055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-22191454669037023822013-05-16T17:55:23.544+01:002013-05-16T17:55:23.544+01:00Tobold, the rules are set by the sites hosting the...Tobold, the rules are set by the sites hosting the ladders, such as GuildOx or WoWProgress. I didn't make up these rules. All the guilds listed were listed by players who wanted their guilds in the competition. I was being facetious about the 2000 guilds, earlier, but to be serious, there are hundreds of guilds on each server that are trying each trying to improve their rank.<br /><br />I should think the rules of "server first kill" are well known.<br /><br />At least you don't try to deny the substance of this post, which is that Pay2Win can affect the games people play with this toy. What you try to do with your response here is to try to deny that these games even exist!<br /><br />Not everyone is playing these games. But many are. They exist.<br />Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1233897446046688337.post-77476799812439167852013-05-16T17:20:18.950+01:002013-05-16T17:20:18.950+01:00To be a game and not a toy you need to have rules....To be a game and not a toy you need to have rules. Your "game of keeping your guild ahead of your peers' guilds" or "server first kill" game do not actually have rules. You made some rules up, but your so-called competitors didn't agree to them, or aren't even aware of them.<br /><br />Imagine you and me drive on the highway. I just want to get from A to B. You declare that this is a game and make up a rule that this is a race and speed past me. What you don't understand is that you are still playing with a toy, because the game only exists in your imagination. You can't compete against somebody who isn't even aware that he is in a competition, or doesn't agree with you what the rules for that competition should be.Toboldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04354082945218389596noreply@blogger.com